I would say if you have a large rails site you’ll probably need about 4x as many app boxes as you would if you were running Django. Possibly because of a slow ruby runtime (the language is so open that it’s hard to optimize a runtime for it).

So Django wins overall for now for large sites. Most sites aren’t large, however…it’s more balanced for them.

-=R

OK.. now we feel we’re totally wrong with Plone. It doesn’t even have any social components, and just ajaxifying the stuff is difficult. More things that you think are just normal (creating a subdomain for every member, or at least a normal url) are just not easy if not impossible.

Now later we want to add collaborative filtering, (off the shelf filters but only in php or C, not python) or simply subscribing to people’s activity (voting, recommendations whatever)…. is also not simple in Plone. A lot of stuff is stored in a postgresql database, and some in zodb.
Even our IT team mentions that we make very little use of Plone itself.. just lots of CSS, ajax and some basic processes.

Obviously we can migrate and maybe we should. Question is to what ? Migrating to Django would probably allow us to re-use a lot of what we have. Migrating to RoR would probably allow us to choose from more providers, tap into a larger community and more mindshare.

What to do (I understand noone is going to give me a custom answer here.. but perhaps some insights what to think about in choosing either would be possible and already quite helpful ! ) ?

I agree with you…Python has strong selling points…but they’re largely based on implementation and timing. I think python got to where it is today by basically being a cleaner alternative to perl with a solid implementation at the right time and right place…*and* by having an English-speaking community. When Python was rising in popularity, the Ruby community was largely Japanese…even Matz still struggles with the language. The headstart that Python got led to may libraries being developed.

Look at Ruby and what are the problems? Libraries and implementation (speed). Ruby 1.9 and rubinius should solve the performance problems…I don’t have an answer for the libraries. Hopefully just continued use will provide better !documented! libraries.

Sure there is room for both Python and Ruby, but in a blind “taste” test I believe people will prefer Ruby time and time again. Python is sort of like Perl to me…when there was nothing else, everything thought perl was the coolest thing. Now, after seeing languages that can be powerful *and* beautiful, everyone wonders what the hell perl programmers were thinking. I read Python docs and think exactly the same thing. There just doesn’t seem to be clarity in the design of the language.

I have recently started Python again because I have a need that Twisted fulfills rather nicely. I have read the online tutorials, studied Python in a Nutshell, and have a very good grasp on the language.

Let me say this very clearly…once you have tried Ruby, most other languages seem ugly. Python, unfortunately, is painted by this broad brush. I really, really tried to like it, but it is a language that severely lacks clarity.

I see many people comment on the clarity of Python, which I think can really only be attributed to two things: significant whitespace and the enforcement of parentheses in method calls. Other than these two features, the language is a mess. The inconsistency of the object model, the fact that there are new objects and old objects, the __builtin__ methods, the metaprogramming facilities…it all adds up to a LOT that you have to keep in your head when developing.

Contrast this with Ruby, where the object model is simple and clean, there are no builtins (i.e., everything is a message to an object), the metaprogramming facilities are relatively easy to grok, and Ruby has true closures…there’s really no comparison.

I like pythonistas and the #irc channels of Python, Twisted and Django have a great bunch of folks there. However, many times Ruby is criticized when they haven’t spent any time doing it. Ruby is a real improvement upon Python as a langugage (implementation aside).

I do like things about Python. I wouldn’t mind having significant whitespace in Ruby…and I see the lack of parentheses enforcement abused too many times.

Anyway, I hope those who are critical of Ruby will take the time to use it. I think you’ll find it hard to remove from your frame of reference.

perl language: 1,710,000
perl programming: 5,960,000
catalyst framework: 578,000

AFAIK there is only one Catalyst book

Catalyst offers both a choice of ORMs and a choice of template language